HW70

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zooma
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HW70

Post by zooma » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:04 am

An interesting comment from zunmic on the Model 5 thread was that he preferred the HW70 over the Model 5 and this reminded me that the HW70 was the very first air pistol that I bought "brand new".

I bought my new HW70 in 1970 ( the year it was introduced) and at that time I was unaware of the Original Model 5 - until my friend turned-up with one and I noticed straight away that his Model 5 was a fair bit bigger than my HW70 and although both of them shot in a similar way I preferred my HW70.

The HW70 is still in production to this day, and apart from gaining a safety switch and a different colour moulded stock/grip it still looks very much like my HW70 did all those years ago. During it's production life the Model 5 had a fairly major facelift when the moulded plastic stock/grip was dumped and replaced with a rather more conventional looking design with separate plastic grips when the 5G was launched.

Despite the changes and updates the very popular Model 5 air pistol ( and the recoilless Model 6 variant) is no longer in production - and yet the HW70 continues almost unchanged!

There are a lot less HW70 air pistols about than Model 5 ( or 6) air pistols so they obviously did not sell anything like as well............and yet they are still in production. Does this make it a more successful air pistol than the Model 5?
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gingernut
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Re: HW70

Post by gingernut » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:04 pm

HW do not seem keen on dropping models or changing them much.
Good business sense.
New models cost and may not catch on.
Development and tooling costs on 70 long gone.

If it aint broke etc

If Diana still made the 6 etc they would still be selling them.

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Re: HW70

Post by zunmik » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:09 pm

zooma wrote:An interesting comment from zunmic on the Model 5 thread was that he preferred the HW70 over the Model 5 and this reminded me that the HW70 was the very first air pistol that I bought "brand new".

I bought my new HW70 in 1970 ( the year it was introduced) and at that time I was unaware of the Original Model 5 - until my friend turned-up with one and I noticed straight away that his Model 5 was a fair bit bigger than my HW70 and although both of them shot in a similar way I preferred my HW70.

The HW70 is still in production to this day, and apart from gaining a safety switch and a different colour moulded stock/grip it still looks very much like my HW70 did all those years ago. During it's production life the Model 5 had a fairly major facelift when the moulded plastic stock/grip was dumped and replaced with a rather more conventional looking design with separate plastic grips when the 5G was launched.

Despite the changes and updates the very popular Model 5 air pistol ( and the recoilless Model 6 variant) is no longer in production - and yet the HW70 continues almost unchanged!

There are a lot less HW70 air pistols about than Model 5 ( or 6) air pistols so they obviously did not sell anything like as well............and yet they are still in production. Does this make it a more successful air pistol than the Model 5?
Could it not be that they are so bloody good that folk don't sell them that's why there's not many on the market, M. :think: :)
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Re: HW70

Post by zooma » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:00 pm

zunmik wrote:
zooma wrote:An interesting comment from zunmic on the Model 5 thread was that he preferred the HW70 over the Model 5 and this reminded me that the HW70 was the very first air pistol that I bought "brand new".

I bought my new HW70 in 1970 ( the year it was introduced) and at that time I was unaware of the Original Model 5 - until my friend turned-up with one and I noticed straight away that his Model 5 was a fair bit bigger than my HW70 and although both of them shot in a similar way I preferred my HW70.

The HW70 is still in production to this day, and apart from gaining a safety switch and a different colour moulded stock/grip it still looks very much like my HW70 did all those years ago. During it's production life the Model 5 had a fairly major facelift when the moulded plastic stock/grip was dumped and replaced with a rather more conventional looking design with separate plastic grips when the 5G was launched.

Despite the changes and updates the very popular Model 5 air pistol ( and the recoilless Model 6 variant) is no longer in production - and yet the HW70 continues almost unchanged!

There are a lot less HW70 air pistols about than Model 5 ( or 6) air pistols so they obviously did not sell anything like as well............and yet they are still in production. Does this make it a more successful air pistol than the Model 5?
Could it not be that they are so bloody good that folk don't sell them that's why there's not many on the market, M. :think: :)

Yes it could be that - but I doubt it somehow !

I think they just did not sell that many of them which is a pity as it reduces my chances of finding one with a nice tortoiseshell coloured grip.
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Re: HW70

Post by RobinC » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:16 am

gingernut wrote:If Diana still made the 6 etc they would still be selling them.
But what would it cost?

Robin

zooma
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Re: HW70

Post by zooma » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:44 pm

RobinC wrote:
gingernut wrote:If Diana still made the 6 etc they would still be selling them.
But what would it cost?

Robin

A very good question !

Both the Giss system and the "sledge" system used by FWB were complex mechanisms that required a lot of machine time when compared with the relatively simple mechanics of the PCP air pistols that are in production today.

Given the amazingly high purchase prices of the current crop of precision made ( but still mechanically simple) match pistols I believe that they simply could not afford to make the Model 6 (or Model 10) air pistols at a price that would be commercially viable now.

However, I do not see why they did not continue to make the Model 5 as this is as simple as the HW70 and in its final 5G format superior in every way to the "still in production" HW70 that has never been updated and is now showing its age.

When the HW70 first came out it was competing against the similar one-piece moulded grip variant of the Model 5, and as I said at the start of this thread I actually preferred it at that time but on reflection the Model 5 probably always was the superior design but my pride of ownership of my first ever brand new air pistol ( bought with my first apprentice wages) made it very "special" to me and maybe that is why I preferred it.

Recently I acquired a pair of wood gripped Model 5 air pistols and they still shoot very accurately and it would be good to find an original HW70 to shoot alongside them and the moulded grip Model 5 variants to see exactly how it compared with it's Model 5 rivals from the same time period.

I rather suspect I would not be quite so convinced about the HW70 when I compare them again with no emotional conviction to either pistol although I would love the HW70 to come out on top ;)
Last edited by zooma on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HW70

Post by pmh » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:28 pm

I agree in some ways.

The complexity is certainly there, but the advent of CNC machinery that can be kept running over night and at the weekend should certainly help reduce costs for some of the more complex pistols.

The Model 5 should certainly be easy to produce for a reasonable rate even now.

Now that we have the equipment, should we give it a go?

Kind regards,



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Re: HW70

Post by zunmik » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:20 pm

Hmm the hw70 appears to have got lost on the thread, as a for instance if their was a comp for std recoiling pistols (non target unmodified) only, I would choose the hw70 every time over all others, but then each to their own, M. :)
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Re: HW70

Post by pmh » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:23 pm

I haven't shot one yet but, like many other guns, it is on my list if the right one happens to present itself.

I am sure one will one day.

Until then, I'll just wait for Bob to get one and have a go with his.

Kind regards,



Phil
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zooma
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Re: HW70

Post by zooma » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:19 am

pmh wrote:I haven't shot one yet but, like many other guns, it is on my list if the right one happens to present itself.

I am sure one will one day.

Until then, I'll just wait for Bob to get one and have a go with his.

Kind regards,



Phil

You could have a long wait Phil as I have not seen a nice original HW70 with brown grips for sale for a while - although to be honest I have not been looking for one so that has probably got a lot to do with it. :)

They are not particularly desirable as a collectors pistol and they are not worth too much cash either but for somebody like myself it would be nice to get reunited with an example of the first new air pistol I ever bought - and with my own (meagre) apprentice wages too!

It would also be nice to put it alongside my "as new" HW70 instructions that I have kept safe all these years (more by default to be honest as I just forgot where I had put them) but I would mostly like to make sure it was in good shooting condition and then test it against the Model 5 pistols from the same time period.

The HW70 was a smaller, lighter and generally neater pistol than the Model 5 and if I can find one in nice condition I would keep it and enjoy using it alongside its bigger and heavier M&G rivals.
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zooma
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Re: HW70

Post by zooma » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:29 am

zunmik wrote:Hmm the hw70 appears to have got lost on the thread, as a for instance if their was a comp for std recoiling pistols (non target unmodified) only, I would choose the hw70 every time over all others, but then each to their own, M. :)

It would be good to have a competition for recoiling pistols only - maybe this is something we could include in next seasons 6 yard MPL postal competition?

My guess would be that this could be very popular and I would also guess that the likely rivals for this .177 competition would include:

HW70, Diana/Original Model 5, Walther LP53, Webley Junior, Mk 1, Senior, Premier, Hurricane and Typhoon along with some of the less common types such as the Jumbo Record and Acvokes etc as well as the various underlever types from GAMO including the Centre and Target.

This could be fun and a great excuse to get some of these old pistols back in operation again.
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Re: HW70

Post by zunmik » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 pm

zooma wrote:
zunmik wrote:Hmm the hw70 appears to have got lost on the thread, as a for instance if their was a comp for std recoiling pistols (non target unmodified) only, I would choose the hw70 every time over all others, but then each to their own, M. :)

It would be good to have a competition for recoiling pistols only - maybe this is something we could include in next seasons 6 yard MPL postal competition?

My guess would be that this could be very popular and I would also guess that the likely rivals for this .177 competition would include:

HW70, Diana/Original Model 5, Walther LP53, Webley Junior, Mk 1, Senior, Premier, Hurricane and Typhoon along with some of the less common types such as the Jumbo Record and Acvokes etc as well as the various underlever types from GAMO including the Centre and Target.

This could be fun and a great excuse to get some of these old pistols back in operation again.
Yes such a comp would be a good idea hopefully on CAPA!, but surely you can't be serious about including "Wobblies" with real pistols :lol: your supposed to shoot pellets with them not chuck em at the target from 5 Ft away, M. :roll: :laughing-rolling:
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Re: HW70

Post by zooma » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:41 pm

zunmik wrote:
zooma wrote:
zunmik wrote:Hmm the hw70 appears to have got lost on the thread, as a for instance if their was a comp for std recoiling pistols (non target unmodified) only, I would choose the hw70 every time over all others, but then each to their own, M. :)

It would be good to have a competition for recoiling pistols only - maybe this is something we could include in next seasons 6 yard MPL postal competition?

My guess would be that this could be very popular and I would also guess that the likely rivals for this .177 competition would include:

HW70, Diana/Original Model 5, Walther LP53, Webley Junior, Mk 1, Senior, Premier, Hurricane and Typhoon along with some of the less common types such as the Jumbo Record and Acvokes etc as well as the various underlever types from GAMO including the Centre and Target.

This could be fun and a great excuse to get some of these old pistols back in operation again.
Yes such a comp would be a good idea hopefully on CAPA!, but surely you can't be serious about including "Wobblies" with real pistols :lol: your supposed to shoot pellets with them not chuck em at the target from 5 Ft away, M. :roll: :laughing-rolling:

Ha -come on then - why not enter your HW 70 in the next 6 yard MPL postal series?

It would be good to see how it performs over the 6 month series as I think it will do quite well and it should give some of those awful :naughty: Wobblies a bit of a kicking (perhaps :lol: ).
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Re: HW70

Post by HW70 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:14 am

Does anyone know the production dates of the HW70 pistol with medium brown stocks and without the auto safety feature? What is the average c-t-c 5 shot group accuracy at 10 meters of this pistol?

Would this pistol be powerful enough to take down a rat at 10 to 15 meters in a single shot? Or does it have enough energy to punch a hole through and through an empty steel tin can at those ranges?

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Re: HW70

Post by zooma » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:31 am

The HW70 is a nice target pistol but it is not suitable for hunting rats or for hunting anything else and I guess your question about the pistols ability to punch holes in steel cans is another power related question that suggests a rifle may be more suitable for your requirements.

No air pistol is normally considered an ideal choice for hunting or for humanly despatching animals or birds as the maximum legal power permitted at 6 ft/lbs is only half that of the 12ft/lbs legal limit for an air rifle. Also the average shooter would not find it possible to guarantee a clean kill shot with an air pistol and so it should not be considered.

Short "ratter" type's of air rifles can be a good choice for hunting rats where a shorter length of hunting weapon can give more manoeuvrability in confined places such as cellars and barns etc.
Last edited by zooma on Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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